Discover the unexpected truth about achieving true wealth and happiness. It’s not what you think! Tune in as two personal finance experts take you on a journey to redefine richness and abundance, leaving you with a new perspective on what it means to live a truly fulfilling life. Get ready to challenge your beliefs and open your mind to a world of holistic wealth beyond money. Are you ready to discover the real secret to getting rich? Stay tuned for an eye-opening revelation that will change the way you view success and abundance forever.

In this episode, you will be able to:

  • Discover the true meaning of personal wealth and how it extends beyond just money.
  • Uncover how your mindset plays a crucial role in achieving financial success.
  • Learn effective strategies to attain financial independence and security.
  • Explore the significance of living within your means for a more fulfilling life.
  • Find out how embracing simplicity and minimalism can lead to greater happiness and contentment.


00:00:01 - Andrew Dewar

Welcome to the five year you podcast, a show dedicated to helping you become the best version of yourself one day at a time. I'm Andrew.

00:00:09 - Catherine Collins

And I'm Cat, and we promise to keep it raw, real, and relatable.

00:00:15 - Andrew Dewar

Are you ready to grow? How would you like to be richer in the next 30 minutes? Today's episode is called how to get Rich, and it's all about finding more wealth in. In your life, in places that you may not have thought about. I'm Andrew, and this is the five year podcast. Cat, how are you doing today?

00:00:33 - Catherine Collins

I'm doing great. I love that we're doing this episode.

00:00:36 - Andrew Dewar

I know you came up with it a few weeks ago, and we took a bit of a break while everything's moving around. And I'm excited about this because I think when we talk about rich and wealthy, there is this one idea that comes up all the time. And in my narrow definition of what it is to be rich, there's so much more to it. So how do you get rich?

00:00:59 - Catherine Collins

Cat, great question. I think you needed to find what it is for yourself. I also think we should do a bit of a disclaimer and tell everyone how we met and why that's relevant to this podcast.

00:01:12 - Andrew Dewar

Oh, for sure.

00:01:14 - Catherine Collins

So we met at a personal finance company conference because both of us started out as personal finance bloggers.

00:01:22 - Andrew Dewar

It was a dark and stormy night. Oh, you're going a different way with. With this. With this story. Sorry. Okay. Yeah, go.

00:01:28 - Catherine Collins

Yeah. So we met at this conference, and it's just full of people who are, like, money nerds. And both of us are, I would say, naturally frugal, gravitated towards writing about money and documenting our money journeys and, you know, sharing tips and advice, and. And we go to this conference full of other money nerds. We meet, and then we meet, like, every year. We just briefly met the first year, and then as each year went on, we chatted more and more.

00:01:54 - Andrew Dewar

Interesting how that goes. Cause I remember the first conference that I went to with this. I felt really like I had found my tribe. And then as time went on, I found that there was definitely certain people that I still gravitated towards, but then there was a different group of people that I was like, this is not how I want my life to be. And that's just that personal choice. I think when we talk about getting rich, there is this mindset of, I think we want abundance, but we kind of default to scarcity in it. And when it comes to being rich, rich is a state of mind. Abundance is a state of mind. I was telling you yesterday, I was doing a course, a friend of ours, Lisa, and she had something in it. I'm going to paraphrase it, because you know me, I can't quote anything accurately to save my life. But the concept was, you cannot save enough to feel abundance.

00:02:50 - Catherine Collins

Ooh, that's good.

00:02:52 - Andrew Dewar

And you cannot buy abundance in a store. It comes from within. Like, when we're talking about rich and wealthy, these are just kind of, everybody looks the money and it's a number on a sheet. They think it's a million dollars or $10 million or whoever you are, whatever, there's a number. But when you get that number, you're not going to feel good if it's come from this place of lack and scarcity.

00:03:14 - Catherine Collins

Yeah, I agree. And I bring up how we met to illustrate that tactically, step by step wise, you and I both understand how money works. As far as math goes, we understand how people build financial independence through investing. We are pretty naturally frugal, and a lot of that community is. Sometimes they take it a bit too far.

00:03:42 - Andrew Dewar

I have worn the same pair of underwear for the last ten years, inside and out.

00:03:46 - Catherine Collins

Stop it.

00:03:47 - Andrew Dewar

Sorry, folks.

00:03:48 - Catherine Collins

Click. No. But over the years, we've really expanded this definition. And I also wrote a money book, mom's got money. And in my research. Thank you. In my research for the book, I read about a study of wealthy women. And surprisingly, a lot of women with really high net worth still. Still have what we call, like, bag lady syndrome. No matter how much money they have, it's really common for women to still be worried that they don't have enough. Women really value those feelings of, like, safety. Being rich is not a number because there are some super rich people who are still worried about losing it all. And there are people who might not have big numbers in the bank who are the most content and happy people you can be. So the first steps. Right. Defining what it is for you.

00:04:37 - Andrew Dewar

Exactly. So I think when we are approaching this topic of how to get rich, the first thing is bringing the awareness. We always say, you know, awareness is the first step to change.

00:04:49 - Catherine Collins


00:04:50 - Andrew Dewar

And I did say that I may have taken that from somebody else. Again, I'm really sorry, guys. I'm terrible at quoting people. I will aim to get better, but it's not super high on my list. So when you're aiming to get rich, the whole idea is that you're able to look at your life and go, okay, well, what areas are you already rich in? Do you have a lot of friends, do you have your health? If you're listening to this, in North America, you live with like 1% of the wealth. Even like, you know, to have $30,000 a year is more than what the average person in the world makes in any other country. It's just relative to where you are. It looks very, very different. I think when we're looking at this stuff and we're going, okay, I want to be rich, what does that mean? Does that mean not working? Does that mean having your bills paid? Does that mean living in a country where making less and that goes a further distance budget wise? These are all kind of tactics in the end, but we want to make sure that you start looking at things and going, what does a wealthy life mean? So rich is often attributed to money, but rich abundance, wealth, that is a feeling state. And the nice part about that is once you can get to that state faster, it's been my experience that more good things happen around that area. It's when you're in that lack scarcity mindset, you're never going to be happy with it. And that's why I think we've seen so many, one of many reasons why we've seen so many people win lotteries and lose it all in a few years. It's because there's a worthiness aspect, there's a scarcity aspect. There's all these different things that come in, and they are not the best examples of wealth because they're all rich, but they're not happy. They haven't done the inside work. And so when you get something like a vast amount of money thrown at you and you don't feel worthy, you are going to lose that faster than you can imagine.

00:06:42 - Catherine Collins

Yeah, I think that's a great point to bring up. And it really relates to what we talk about, what we design, develop this idea of looking at life, this idea of personal growth called the layers of life. And we do have an episode, I think it's three. Episode three.

00:07:00 - Andrew Dewar

Episode two or three, I have it right here.

00:07:03 - Catherine Collins

If you're watching on YouTube, you can see it. But the idea of it, if you think of it like a sort of a multi level target, and the inside of the target is your authentic self, your soul, your being, who you really are on the inside as you go out, you have sort of the next layer, family. Then we go to career and this. But the outer ring are the physical things in our life. And we're not going to be the first people to tell you that the physical things in life don't bring you happiness and all of these things. This is not a new concept. But what we've learned is that living life from the inside out, from really focusing on your authentic self, what you truly want, what truly brings you joy and peace, is the fastest way to get to where you want to be. And when you're living life from the outside in, that is putting all your focus on your title at work and how many designer handbags you have in your closet. And if the focus is on collecting and accumulating, when you have all of your energy there, that means you're not putting energy towards who you truly are and your authentic self. You know, we like nice things and nice trips and all of that. But what I like the most in life is the feeling of serenity and peace. There's nothing worse than money stress. I've been in money abundance. I've been in money stress. I've used food stamps when my twins were infants to buy them formula. I have been in a house that is pinterest worthy and completely beautiful on the inside with brand new furniture. All the different levels, and I have to say, sometimes, like, being in the nicest levels with the most expensive things and the biggest bills are far more stressful than other situations I've been in. So for me, for talking about finding what rich means to you, I've learned that being rich is having a peace of mind.

00:09:07 - Andrew Dewar

I'm gonna put you on the spot because, you know, I'm drinking my coffee and just loving everything you're saying in your life. You mentioned you've. You've kind of run the gambit. Gambit. Gambit. You've run the distance. Yeah, we're terrible at quotes and expressions. It's all good, folks. You did not come here for this. Anyway. When did you feel the most rich and abundant?

00:09:35 - Catherine Collins

I have to say, before I had kids, I was married to somebody who went to medical school in the Caribbean. And when we lived there, we had a 270 square foot apartment. There weren't a lot of shops or anything like that. If you wanted to, like, order something from the gap, if you wanted to buy a new dress, you had to pay, like, so much customs on that. There were so many little, like, fruit stands, and we hung our laundry on the line. And it was such a simple life. It's really when I started my business, because I was home a lot while he was at the library studying. And I feel like I found myself on that island because so many outside things were stripped away, so many decisions were stripped away. I remember coming back to the US and tearing up in the chip aisle of the grocery store because there were so many choices and it was so bright in there. I was completely overwhelmed. So I have not had as much serenity as I had on that island because there were not as many choices to make. I did not have children yet, so there were not responsibilities to be had. I did not need a lot of money to live. I was on a really small income. I take my little eastern caribbean dollars to the grocery store and I just wanted for nothing because I was not surrounded by people having something. Everybody was like that. Everyone was in their sandals, everybody was like, whatever. I'm in my t shirts from home because I don't want to buy clothes. And I realized like how much impact our surrounding society, what the people around you are doing. Contrast that to now where, you know, my kids are in a private school and they're going to their friends houses and they're asking for ps five s and all these things. And it's just, it was so much simpler back then. And I think a lot of people can relate to like that young pre kid life before mortgage bills. This I will say, I think it was that I can look back and say, yep, that was a good point. Abundance wise. Feeling good.

00:11:42 - Andrew Dewar

So now you find yourself, you're moving right away.

00:11:45 - Catherine Collins


00:11:45 - Andrew Dewar

As of recording this. And you are going to a place that's I always looked at. When you move somewhere new, you can reinvent yourself. I mean, you are who you are, but you can kind of mold things a little differently, especially for where you are at life in your life journey. So what are you going to define as getting rich now?

00:12:09 - Catherine Collins

So my big goal for the next two years is to get completely debt free. So I got divorced two years ago. And again, so we go from this island, this chill life, all the way up to, you know, the big fancy house and the private school and this that and the other and all the nice things and furniture. And then I get divorced, it kind of all falls apart. And now I had to start from school scratch again. I've had to make some really hard financial decisions. But again, because I've been a financial writer for over a decade, because I know so much about money and how it works and how to fix it, build it, do this. I had to have a little bit of a come to Jesus with myself and say, hey, Catherine, if someone read one of your articles and emailed you and said, hey, I'm a single mom. I'm in this beautiful house and I just got divorced, and I have all this debt for my divorce, but I really want to stay in this house, and I really. I don't want to disrupt my kids, and I really want to keep them in this school. What would you tell them? And I know the answer. The answer is, you can't afford this house right now. Your kids will be happy in public school. You cannot keep up the same image and lifestyle that you had before. You're now a one income household. You have to make changes if you are going to find the security for yourself moving forward. You're responsible for yourself now, and you have to secure your own future, period. And so my journey now is I'm renting, and it's hard because you're like, I'm this educated professional. All of these people my age have this house and the kids and all these things. And I'm going. I feel like I'm going backwards, but in my heart I know that I'm just. I'm hunkering down. I'm, like, planting the roots. And when I'm able to grow, like, when the flower pops out, I know that I'm going to be far more secure than everyone else that looks secure.

00:14:11 - Andrew Dewar

I'm going to offer you a suggestion, as I tend to throughout our days. You feel like you're moving backwards. But isn't backwards kind of where you wanted to go, where everything was simpler?

00:14:22 - Catherine Collins

Yeah, that's true.

00:14:24 - Andrew Dewar

The other thing I would share with you is, you know, me with my energy healing and with my work and my brain, I pick up on things people say, and you shared something there that I don't think is necessarily accurate for me, but it's a perceptional belief. It's that I'm renting. And there was a negative connotation to that a little bit. But I don't think that's a bad thing. I downsized into a condo and I got divorced. It takes a bit of adjusting, right. Because, you know, like, literally, it was like, day one was completely different. And when I did all that, yeah, the definition of wealth was the big house. But I was miserable in the big house because I had to cut a massive grass. I think they call it a yard. Yard would be the term people. But, like, with a big place, there's a lot of maintenance and a lot of keep up. And it's one thing if you have everything that you can afford to get the people doing this stuff and doing all the things for you, but again, that's more money. So you got to go work more for it. And if you're making a lot great. But if that's not making you happy, then you're just in a. You're in a hamster wheel that you're never going to escape because you think that that outer layer of life, the stuff, is going to be the thing that makes you happy. So when you're telling me that you're going backwards in life, I think you actually, and I'm not saying it about any other person that was in your life at that time, but what I'm saying is, from a soul level, I think it's a really good thing. I don't know if you've ever reframed it in your mind or framed it that way. It's like, yeah, no, I'm trying to get to this life of less, which is actually a much more abundant place to be, where I just feel better, which is really why most of us want to get rich, is because we want to feel a certain way that we're not feeling right now. And feelings don't cost money.

00:16:18 - Catherine Collins

Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I always appreciate your advice. And. And I think I'm illustrating the challenge that we're teaching others. We don't teach this layers of life concept because we have it figured out. We teach it because it helps us reframe things. And so for me, one month after my ex husband moved out of the beautiful house, my basement flooded. Like, he moved out January, and in February, my basement flooded. And because for twelve years, that's the person I call. I called up my ex husband and I was like, I don't know what to do. Like, the basement is actively flooding right now. And he was like, Catherine, like, I wish I could help you. I'm walking onto a plane right now. You need to call the neighbor, call this, call that. And I was like, oh, okay. It makes me, like, emotional because I felt so alone in that moment and, like, this big house and this big problem, and I'm, like, going into debt actively from this divorce and I have no idea how to fix it. And so I have, like, everything that looks so beautiful on this outside of this house, and it's literally drowning itself. You know, I had to ask for help and a neighbor and I had to call insurance companies and all those things. And because of that flood, I was like, I need to let go of this ego and I need to do what's best. And in my authentic core, I need peace. This house is stressing me out. And as much as I want to give this to my kids and not disrupt their lives any more than I already have. I am not being the best mom I can be because the stress of this is impacting me in a massive way. And so as I move, as I keep downsizing, so downsize to a smaller house. Now I'm downsizing to an apartment because I'm moving to a different state. I need to keep reminding myself, like, this is my cozy life because my argument is always like, I can make more. I can work harder. I can get more clients. I can do this. We can do more projects. I can fix it. You know, my work ethic can fix it. And what I'm seeing now is, like, my version of a rich, wealthy life is peace. And I have gone so long without peace. And I know the apartment's going to bring me peace because if something's broken, someone else is going to fix it. You know, there's no $10,000 a year property taxes. Yes. That is what they were for. That big house. I mean, I just had to sort of come to terms with it. And I believe that I will attract the friends who are more like me, the friends who want to, like, go to thrift stores, go to the public library with our kids, like, do things that aren't, you know, super spendy. Like, I believe I will attract that, but authentically, like, I just don't want the house anymore. Like, I just want a smaller place.

00:19:16 - Andrew Dewar

I think that's wonderful. I felt the same way.

00:19:19 - Catherine Collins


00:19:20 - Andrew Dewar

First of all, thank you so much. I didn't intend for it to go this way when we started the conversation.

00:19:25 - Catherine Collins

If it helps somebody, like, that's what we're here for.

00:19:28 - Andrew Dewar

Oh, exactly. But think about it like this. Somebody's listening to this and they're thinking, okay, this is how I'm going to get rich. You know, there's going to be people that hear this and they're going to say, well, this isn't what I thought it was going to be. And that's okay, because those people are still stuck on the. I need to make a lot more money to be happy. They're still stuck on the outside. And what we are about, what we preach is finding that peace on the inside. So that when you get the things on the outside, there's just. It's just like I used it before. It's the almond on the tart, and I'm putting that on a t shirt at some point.

00:20:05 - Catherine Collins

But, yeah, it's the almond on the tart, the cherry on top. It is a bonus. You know, it is not the thing that you attach all of your happy feelings to. If we wanted to do a how to get rich, we certainly could sit here and say, pay off your debt. Invest. Here's the research. Here are five ways this person got rich from having all of these different pieces of property and they built passive income on 30 years, and this person invested in all these dividend funds and we could do that. But what really matters is what you think rich means for you and what that level of peace and happiness is for you.

00:20:44 - Andrew Dewar

That's right. The best thing I've ever seen about getting rich was from the Motley fool. And this is like a long time ago, is when Twitter was still Twitter. Ancient times, yeah, but I think it was like the 120 character kind of days, but it was how to get rich. Make money, spend less than you earn, invest the difference, simplify your life. That's it. I mean, there are bookshelves on all this stuff. So I'm going to give you guys listening a bit of an exercise right now that you can do and what it is, very simple, very hard. So you want to get rich. Why? So you can spend more time with your family. Why? Because you don't work the hours you want to work. Why? Because I need the money to support the lifestyle I have. Why? Because I want my friends to acknowledge that I have the same things they have, that I'm good enough. Why? Because I don't feel good enough. Why? Because I was raised thinking I was never going to feel good enough. Why? Because nobody truly loved me. And that was just free flowing. Because I've had this conversation with enough people in coaching to know that this is just kind of how it is. And so you don't want to be rich. You want to feel safe. You want to feel loved, you want to feel cared. You want to feel worthy. Those are all things that can start in a second if you allow them to. So give yourself permission to do what I just did, where you ask yourself why over and over again till you get to that root cause, you're going to see that getting rich isn't the thing. Because even if you're like, well, I want to build a big company and change the world, great, so do we. Why? Because that is my life purpose. It is my life mission. It gets me up every day and I feel like I'm doing my life's work. I've made a decision that whether I help one person a month or 30 people in a day or more than that, or thousands of people in a speech, I'm going to show up every day because I like showing up as me, as the authentic me that is here to help people. And that's my rich life. And I don't need to have all the. I'm going to use the word trappings because that's truly what I'm starting to see them as that society has put on us. As I free myself of these things, I just feel better. I sleep better at night. I'm happier. And that's really what I want to be rich for, is to be happy and feel like a contribute.

00:23:11 - Catherine Collins

I love that. I think it's an amazing place to end. And I'm going to quote you in an earlier episode, and you said if. If everything you were doing was working, you'd be happy by now. You're still searching for it. We want to offer an idea that, you know, simplifying, spending less than you earn, really thinking about what you want and what actually makes you happy. Outside of all the pressures that everyone else, family, parents, friends, your neighborhood puts on you and really have the courage to explore those options for yourself and take action. You'll be surprised if you take a different path. How rich and how wealthy your life can be very quickly.

00:23:57 - Andrew Dewar

Well said. I don't remember saying that quote, but thank you. Okay, so now time to switch gears a little bit. It is time for our glimmers. If you are new to the show, glimmers are that little thing that brought us some delight in the last week since we last spoke with you. Why don't you share what your glimmer is?

00:24:17 - Catherine Collins

Well, I'll tell you, today is my twins last day of fourth grade and I am very glimmery about that. I feel like it's a big milestone. You know, we had all of our lasts this week, right? Like last piano lesson, last dance lesson. Last time the school randomly decided to make me bring things like towels and, you know, whatever other things, like the end of the scramble is so busy for moms like that last month of school. So I'm really happy for them today. They're gonna have a really fun day, fun park, play date with their friends after school. And so I am happy at the closing of a chapter today. That's my glimmer. How about you?

00:24:57 - Andrew Dewar

Well, congrats on closing the chapter. I'm so excited to see what the new one, how the new one gets written on your journey and what we can share with people.

00:25:05 - Catherine Collins

Thank you.

00:25:06 - Andrew Dewar

You know, I'm very, very glimmery about clean water. So who is it? It's so funny. We've been on a well system in our condo complex here, and we just, like, because I live slightly rural, but, you know, we just got water hooked up yesterday, and so they let us know, you know, the water's going to be shut off for at least 12 hours. You know, fill up your buckets and bathtubs and everything that you need water for, which is, like, a lot of things, you know, you don't think about until you turn a tap on. Of course, like, all, all people, you, you know, the monkey brain just goes, you. You do something, you flick on the tap, and what came out looked like Coca Cola coming out of my tap. And I know there's places in the world where clean water is an issue and the water's, like, cleared up already. What happens is, like, it's just like the sludge that is flowing through from emptying out the hot water tanks, I guess, but it was gross. So I am super happy for clean, drinkable water. It is something. Again, it's all in how you look at it. And the more grateful you are, the more you look at the things you have already and the things you can be grateful for, the richer you're going to feel. And I think that's a great place for us to end.

00:26:20 - Catherine Collins

I agree. Have a great day, everyone.

00:26:23 - Andrew Dewar

Just a reminder, we're two people on the Internet. We're not doctors or anything else, but we do want to help. If you feel that you need professional medical care, please see a licensed medical practitioner.

00:26:35 - Catherine Collins

Oh, and don't forget, if you want to get that advice from your future self, head on over to future to get signed up.

00:26:45 - Andrew Dewar

We're rooting for you..