How To Decide Who You Are

Hey, Five Tribe.

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Today's episode is called How to Decide Who You Are, and it is all about getting clear on

the person you're becoming.

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This is the fourth episode and all about starting over, creating that best version of

yourself.

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I'm Andrew, and with me always is Cat.

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How are you doing today, Cat?

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I'm good.

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I was like wow this is the fourth part.

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I was like is this number three or four?

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Is it four?

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Lousers.

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Yeah, it's good, it's good.

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Yeah, so I think the biggest thing with this is uh most people when they get to this part

is usually when they start working with us, but it's because people don't not change

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because they lack motivation, they don't change because they lack clarity.

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And I think one of the biggest things that both you and I had experienced previously and

that most of our clients have is that

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They just don't know who they want to be.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I think a lot of people come to us with a sense of emptiness.

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I wouldn't call it like full fledged midlife crisis or anything like that.

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It's just more like they're sort of in this midlife 30s, 40s and everything's sort of like

good, but not great.

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Everything's a little like ho hum.

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And you know, maybe there are dreams they put to the side or maybe there's things that

they chose just because they're practical.

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They feel like something needs to change, but they don't quite know what it is.

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They want to do something different, but they're not sure what.

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And most of them have worked really hard to get to where they are and they don't want to

blow it up.

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So the episode right before this one was how to change your life without, you know,

blowing everything up.

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So we've acknowledged through this series that people

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want to improve something, want to go through some type of change.

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They don't want it to be dramatic.

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They don't want a reality show about it.

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But we kind of get to this part where it's like, okay, I acknowledge that something needs

to happen, but what?

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And so this episode is a good example of what we walk our clients through who maybe come

to us and say like, I just don't know who I want to be.

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I don't know who I want this new version of myself to be.

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I don't know if it means quitting my job, staying in my job, know, relationship, not

relationship, whatever it is, this is sort of a similar process that we would walk them

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through.

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Right.

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And I think it's really important to say that not knowing, it doesn't mean you're lost.

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just, this is a pretty common thing for most people where they just are, you know, they've

spent their life leaning outwards and like listening to what the world around them is

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telling them who they should be.

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That when it comes time to start reflecting inwards and finding out who you're, you want

to be is a bit of a difficult process at first because you've got to...

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almost get a new set of ears and start listening to your internal voice.

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And most of us, that internal voice has just been, do what everybody else wants so that

we're okay and that we're safe and that we're all right.

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And that works for a certain amount of time, but like you said, that emptiness starts to

creep in and that's usually when you feel that call to change.

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So today we're gonna get clear on the person you're becoming without pressure or

overthinking it.

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We're gonna try to really refine this down.

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So.

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Maybe we should just talk about why clarity feels so hard right now.

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So I think it's hard to know what you really want and who you want to be because so much

of who all of us have become has to do with societal expectations and these invisible

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rules that we abide by.

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And that doesn't mean that conformity is a bad thing.

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That's not saying you have to be this ultra rebellious person, but it is really important

in the process of deciding who you want to be to sort of

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go back and think like, how did I even choose this identity?

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Like, why did you choose the job you chose?

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Why did you choose the partner you chose?

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Why did you choose a house that you have?

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You know, are you making choices based on what you think from the inside out?

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Or are the choices already given to you based on, you know, society, parents, friends,

neighbors?

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what looks good, what others expect, because so often, like, we confuse, like, this

clarity for certainty when really the clarity that we all need and what's right for each

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of us, it can't come from outside sources.

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No, and that's like we said, that's usually what leads us to this issue is that um the

clarity that we want, it doesn't come from making a grandiose decision.

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It just comes from noticing.

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And I think that's...

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I think it's kind of sold to us in movies and things.

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like there's that light bulb moment where it clicks on and it's like, suddenly I realized

that I was always meant to do this thing that's completely different from my life and it

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needs to be that.

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And what it's more about, I mean, that makes good movies and good television, but what

life is actually more about is the subtle things that you notice as you go around in your

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day to day life or your weeks.

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And...

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understanding that the person you are now that you're changing, want to iterate and change

away from or become somebody new isn't because you did something wrong in the past.

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It's just, you did what everybody's done.

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I mean, that's societal based expectations are very, very prevalent, especially in North

America.

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And so sometimes when you're starting to unlearn these things, it can be challenging.

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So.

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One of the questions that we like to ask people is like, who did you learn who you should

be from?

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Like who taught you this is who you're supposed to be?

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This is what grownup Andrew is supposed to look like.

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This is what grownup Catherine is supposed to look like.

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This is what grownup you is supposed to look like.

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When you can start to reflect on that, you'll come up with some pretty good answers, but

it's a really good uh time to reflect on that question.

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Yeah, I really like that.

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And I think that the idea of maybe changing or becoming someone new or sort of going

against the grain or sort of doing something different from what everyone else does, it

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seems like this really huge thing, like this idealized version of you that's somewhere

really far in the future or it's some like fantasy you read about where.

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two people quit their jobs and now they live in Thailand, you know, or whatever it is.

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But it doesn't have to be that way.

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Who you're becoming and who you wanna be isn't actually as far away as you think.

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It's often just a mindset shift.

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And because you're having this conversation, because you clicked on this podcast episode

or because you're seeing this clip on Instagram or TikTok or whatever, it means that

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you're.

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already in motion becoming who you want to be.

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It is not as far away as you think.

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Yeah, the person you're becoming right now, that future self of you is already talking

back to you and leaving clues in your day-to-day life of, yes, yeah, do that, and no,

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don't do that anymore.

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ah And I think that's something that shows up very quietly, and it almost will sneak by

you until you have somebody on the outside go, that, that was the thing that you keep

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saying that you don't think is a big deal.

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The fact that you love...

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reading and you love writing reports and like that is the thing that you're meant to move

towards.

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We don't know what that fully looks like yet, but that's the next step.

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And typically these types of things, when they show up quietly, they'll go under our radar

because we're so used to thinking it's got to be dramatic.

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like you got to, you know, the, it's like getting hit in the side of the head with a brick

or something like that to sink in, but it's really not about that.

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I mean, for us, mean, something that really quietly showed up was Catherine and I, we

would be talking and, you know, like, we weren't really into the big house idea and we

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weren't really into the next newest car idea.

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And for us, all these little things were like, yeah, that's fine.

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And then we finally like, were able to kind of formalize it in our experience going like.

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We don't buy into this, but we're not buying into the societal script that everybody seems

to be telling us that we were always told needs to be our way of life.

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Yeah, I think to clarify, like previous versions of us did have a lot of these checkbox

things like the big house and all these different things.

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And it was like exhausting for both of us to take care of it.

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And but like that's what, you know, proves to everyone else that you actually do what you

were supposed to do and you work hard and all of these things.

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And um now both of us have small homes and we go back and forth.

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between the US and Canada.

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And we were just telling another couple about that.

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They were very confused.

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They asked where we were from and we were like, well, we're like Winnipeg and Chicago.

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And the first thing they said was, wow, that sounds really expensive.

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And the thing is, is that it surprised both of us because we live in such a different way

from other people that...

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Like people would be surprised at what they can do that it's actually not as expensive as

they think.

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It's like when you say no to something else, when you say no to the big house or the brand

new car, you're saying yes to other things like the ability to travel, the ability to have

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two small homes in two different countries, right?

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And go back and forth.

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uh But for the longest time before Andrew and I became the versions of ourselves that we

are now, we both had this sort of like quiet knowing.

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And I'm sure other people have experienced this too, where you're like in a busy room with

a bunch of friends and everyone's like talking about like where they're going or what new

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car they're going to get or that they had a promotion.

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And it's just like, I don't know.

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Sometimes I would just sit there and just be like, I don't care.

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Like I just, none of this stuff's impressive to me or I'd be in a group of women and they

would talk about like they knew his bag they got, or they talked about something on Real

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Housewives and like no hate if Real Housewives is like your guilty pleasure.

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I get it.

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But it's like, I would just be like, I just.

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None of this interests me.

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Like we are very not materialistic and when you're kind of different from other people or

different from the norm, it can make you feel really isolated.

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But there's also an opportunity in there to do something really unique and interesting

with your life.

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So if you're kind of at the point where you're just sort of like over the conversation at

work, over the conversations, like drinking with your neighbors and you're just like, wow,

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I just don't want in this anymore.

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uh

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Those are, that's what we're talking about where your future life is leaving clues.

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It's these little tiny bits of knowing and these little nudges of your body being like,

this doesn't, this isn't really who I am.

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I'm not aligned with this.

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Yeah, that's a

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really well put and I think saying, you I'm not aligned with this anymore also gives

credence to that person that got you there.

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And cause we talked about that last episode, right?

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Like I think there's this, well, if I'm reinventing that means I'm, I'm discounting all

that I've already done.

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It's like, no, like back then you made these choices because they were the right choices

for you to become to this person.

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And now you've got to this place and now you're finding that maybe you do like certain

things and don't like certain things.

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And now you're iterating, you're recreating yourself away from or with a new identity.

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It doesn't have to be away from everything.

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It's just away from the things that no longer serve you.

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And I think, Catherine, you bring up a good point, like for you and I, and I'm gonna steal

your line here, like we just decided to opt out.

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Like that's just kind of been our thing is like, no, we're not doing that.

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And we've talked to a lot of people.

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It's like, well, you have to do this.

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As soon as we hear that, like Catherine and I are such, it's so opposite to these things.

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Like if somebody tells you you have to, it tells one of us,

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you have to do this, you have to get a new car because you just got a raise, you have to

go have a summer home because everybody else has one.

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Her and Cat and I, just look at each other and we're like, nope, we're opting out from

that.

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It's just been something that we just can't, we can't buy into.

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We tried, we tried to buy into the scripts and everything for a long time and we're like,

you know what?

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I don't want to do grass.

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I really don't.

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So like, let's get places where somebody else is like, let's get condos, apartments where,

you know, people do the landscaping and stuff and let's go, you know, like see about

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cutting our monthly costs down because I would way rather spend $200 on travel than spend

$200 on this extra grocery stuff that really doesn't serve me and it's not good for me.

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We have just decided to honor our

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who we truly are.

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And that came with those little clues as we were just mentioning.

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Yeah, exactly.

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And you know, I bet em this is true for our listeners as it is for me.

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Like when you look back at your life, when you look back at the things you liked as a kid,

when you look back at maybe the things that came naturally to you, eh there were probably

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clues then too about what you valued and who you are and wherever you spent your money

from your grandma for Christmas, like the things that you liked doing.

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Those are all clues.

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And it's like, as we get older, we sort of lose the wonder and uh the interest in all of

these things.

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And we sort of sign up to be a grownup.

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so this moment, like give yourself the opportunity to find the clarity without feeling the

need to reinvent everything.

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And, you know, when I talk about what you liked as a kid and stuff like that, like the

very first thing I would recommend

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to our clients and we actually ask them, what did you like doing as a kid?

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Because it usually tells us what types of activities expand you and what types of

activities drain you.

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Follow the energy, follow the things that bring you joy, follow the things that you would

do constantly and not stop.

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I love that.

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Yeah.

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Following your energy is the biggest one is like what's making you feel good.

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What's making you feel bad.

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The next thing that you should do.

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And I using the word should, but for this 10 it's valid this time is look at the, you're

drawn to repeatedly.

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Look for the patterns.

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That's information.

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If you like to go for morning walks or you like being in the woods or you really like just

thrive in that busy downtown vibe.

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These are all things that are

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moving you forward to this new person.

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And it's really, really important because we're gonna discount that.

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We're gonna say, I really like being downtown, but I got a place already in the country

and it's fine.

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And it's like, no, it's not fine.

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It's that part of you is just, uh it's not fine.

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It's just that part of you that is telling you.

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There's more, this is where we're moving towards.

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And if you can acknowledge that and start to embrace it more, life is gonna be better.

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You just have to give yourself permission to kinda see what patterns are emerging.

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Yeah, and as you're paying attention to what you're drawn to repeatedly, what brings you

joy, what gives you energy, pay attention to what brings you discomfort too.

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And those pain points are really important pieces of information where you're just like,

wow, I truly cannot stand going to this office every day and having three meetings in this

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boardroom.

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Every time someone calls a meeting to a boardroom, I'm just like,

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No, like screaming on the inside of my head.

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That might show you, look, you maybe are meant to thrive in a smaller company in a remote

role in something else that maybe involves deeper work and less social interaction or

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whatever it is.

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The discomfort is a clue.

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What gives you energy and joy is a clue.

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um All of these things are really, important to pay attention to.

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Yeah, and if you're like me and you absolutely hated meetings, I used to like sit in

meetings in the office and I would count the windows on the building across the way.

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It's like 356.

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It was just like, that is how much I did not like it.

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And people would tease me and it's like, oh, Andrew's checked out.

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I'm like, yeah, Andrew's checked out because we've been talking about the same thing for

two hours and we haven't made a decision yet.

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So this is the types of things that, you know.

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Clearly something's draining me.

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This is a point of discomfort.

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So, you know, office work, probably not my jam.

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And again, because we're teaching you not to blow up your life, this is not a movie.

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We are not standing up and saying, there's 360 windows and I'm tired of this job and you

know, slamming it down in this big movie moment.

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We're like, okay, what's a good move strategically?

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Do I need to stay in this company in a different role?

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Do I need to, you know, do this, do that?

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But what we're really trying to get.

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our clients to think about when we do this and you dear listener is think about like what

you would do if money wasn't an option, if you didn't have to impress anybody, like if

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integrity and alignment was the goal and not how successful and impressive it's going to

look or sound to your parents or your culture or whatever else, what would you do?

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And I can hear all the people like instant joking, like, well, I just watched Netflix all

day, whatever.

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Like, no, what did you love doing as a kid?

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What interests you?

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What was your like fascination?

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Like, were you the dinosaur book person where you knew every single dinosaur?

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Like whatever it was, these are patterns and clues about how your brain works and

everything that you used to do before society told you you should be something else.

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Yeah, it's a really, really important thing.

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We can't over, I know like we're kind of giving away some of the coaching secrets here,

but like that, you, what you enjoyed as a child, there's a lot in there.

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And it's not always as simple as, know, well, I'm just going to read dinosaur books for

the rest of my life, but it is something that lends towards bigger things.

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And we kind of coach you through all that.

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I think that is just part of it though, is looking at your life and going,

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what fits now and what doesn't fit anymore and what feels honest to me at this point and

what feels like I'm kind of going through the motions, faking it a little bit because we

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all have that and the faking it doesn't always have to be.

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Catherine just probably gave you the best question and I'll add to it.

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is what would you do if you didn't need the money, what would you do all day, and you

didn't need to share it on social media or tell people about it?

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What would you do if it was just for you?

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And I think that takes a lot of the pressure off of like impressing the society people,

impress, showing off and all these things.

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When you strip it all down and you don't need money, what are you doing?

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What is the thing that lights you up?

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there is a way to build a life around that.

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And there's a way to build a life around that incrementally, which is what we're big

proponents of.

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Yeah, again, like Andrew said, we're not trying to be literal.

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We're not saying like, you like dinosaurs could be paleontologists, right?

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We're saying like for me, I just went through a bunch of boxes from my childhood.

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I mean, there's so many journals.

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There's so many stories.

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Like I had a family newspaper that I distributed to everyone.

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Everything pointed to me doing ah very deep, like reading and writing and quiet work.

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But there are parts of like our work where I was on, you know,

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like doing media and TV and speaking.

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sometimes it's like because you do certain things well, you think you have to do them.

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But every time I did those things, like it was great and it helped the business, but those

were some of my most draining days.

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And then, you know, other times, Andrew and I sit and we create and we write and like

we're really in flow and like that's where all the magic is.

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That's where all the joy in the work is for me.

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And so that's what we mean when we think about a kid, like Andrew loved doing puzzles as a

kid.

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That is so his vibe now, like that he's our tech guy.

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He puts all the pieces together.

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He makes the business run very efficient, efficiently.

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Like his brain works like that, like a puzzle clicking together.

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And like that is his role in his area of genius.

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And so there are things that you were naturally drawn to and things that you liked doing.

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that you can think of how that, is it missing from your life now?

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Like, did you choose something like, you might be in something that has the total opposite

energy drain of what you actually need and you could actually feel a ton better if you

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shifted things.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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I think that's the biggest thing is like you don't just become someone new and pick a

label like I'm a paleontologist now because I like dinosaur books.

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You become that new person by aligning yourself with how that future version of you is

going to live.

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And that again, gradual process.

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And yeah, and like Catherine said, there are for both of us.

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It was very clear.

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I love, you know, the puzzle thing.

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I love talking with people and helping solve their problems.

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And that was just another idea just to show you an iteration of stuff, you know, like

problem solving can lend itself to different things.

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Writing and communicating can lend itself to different things.

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And

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Not all those things are going to be a proper fit, but again, it kind of puts you in the

right arena and then you can start to figure out where your seat is in that arena.

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Was that a good analogy?

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Wow.

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Sure, let's give me that.

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I did not then.

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doesn't hurt us to say, job, Andrew.

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So when you're in alignment, you're going through this process, you're trying to think

about who you wanna be, it's a slow process.

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A couple of things I wanna remind our listeners, what clarity is gonna feel like.

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It's not gonna feel like a big aha moment.

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It's not gonna be like this big euphoric state of like,

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the clouds parting and the angels singing, you're just going to feel grounded.

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You're not going to feel pressured.

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It's just, you're going like your body, your brain, you're going to feel like what you're

doing is right.

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It's kind of like how you make a decision that you worried over or something and like

suddenly you sleep better that night.

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That is what certainty feels like.

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Certainty feels like calm, grounded energy, not frantic, urgent, explosive energy.

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It's...

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Chill and aligned is the best way I can describe it.

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that chill in the line.

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It's like like what quietly feels right in my life Like yeah, that feels good.

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And I think we all have those things so See how your body kind of reacts to stuff your

body knows the truth long before our brains ever know the truth so You know if if you are

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being told hey, we're going to such-and-such place tonight and you get tense and you have

like, you know Stomach cramps and everything else around that

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you may not like that place, person, thing, event, or whatever it is.

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But if somebody says, hey, we're going to this other thing, and you get excited, and your

body comes alive, there you go.

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There's something else.

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And it's not like a, I know we said like, it's not euphoric or urgent.

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It's just like, oh, I get to go do that.

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And that's kind of what we're going for with this, is like that get to feeling versus the

have to feeling.

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Yeah.

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So what happens when you don't have the vision yet?

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Because that's where you're at.

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That's where you're usually at right now when you listen to this episode.

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First of all, you don't need to have full confidence in who you're gonna be.

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You don't know your five-year self right now.

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You're just edging towards things.

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You're finding out which doors you're gonna open and which ones maybe need to close.

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You don't need to have the next 10 steps.

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You just need to know that next step that's going to feel right.

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And if you take that step and it doesn't feel right, you take a step back, you go in a

different direction.

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There's no wrong things.

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There's only valuable lessons learned.

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Catherine and I say that all the time.

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No experience is wasted.

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If you think, if you're listening to this and you go, yeah, you know what she said about

writing is really good.

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I'm going to start writing every day and you sit down and you absolutely

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hate the process of it, that's okay.

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You just realize that you don't want to be a writer.

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You take a step back and you go look at the next thing.

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Maybe you want to do something else like, I don't know, cooking, know, movie star,

whatever feels right for you.

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um Very, very wide example there.

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But I think when you do this, just be easy on yourself.

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This is a fun process.

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I think that's the thing we haven't really, we haven't discussed is like, this is supposed

to be awesome.

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This is when we walk people through this, they are excited.

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They're like, I didn't realize this and I did this this week from last week when we talked

and my goodness, I feel so much better.

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feel, I feel happy.

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Do people still feel happy at our age?

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Like, yeah, it's just that you haven't, you've been ignoring yourself and now you're

finally coming alive.

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Yeah, exactly.

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I love how you said that.

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It made me smile really big actually because, uh, yeah, it's supposed to be fun, you know,

like try not to make this like the super serious, like we're called five year year.

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We do work with people on five year plan ideas, but your plan like can change.

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Like this is a flexible growth process where you have the freedom.

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You have the time.

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There's no urgency, right?

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You get to take your time and enjoy discovering who you are or rediscovering like who you

were always meant to be but the person kind of got buried along the way.

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This is an exciting time to find clarity about who you are, who you want to be and the

goals that you want to reach.

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And once you have an idea, again, you don't have to have the whole picture.

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Like Andrew said, just gotta be one step, just one little step.

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Once you have that, then I think some of our previous episodes become helpful about how to

make those small changes over time without completely obliterating everything that you've

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worked towards.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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And I think something that is very, important for you listener is that because you're

listening to this show, you're further along this journey than you're giving yourself

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credit for.

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And that is a really good takeaway is that just because you may not be where you think you

should be.

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you can acknowledge where you are and that is honoring this preference that has shown up,

this change that you're being called to rather than being, don't know who I'm supposed to

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be.

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It's like, no, you do.

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You're you're being this, you're doing the next step.

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So that's.

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Just something I wanted to leave you with as bit of encouragement.

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next week we're gonna talk about how to build some habits around becoming the best version

of yourself, that future self.

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But for now, we're gonna end with our glimmers as we always do.

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So Cat, what is your glimmer?

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my gosh, so if new listeners are here, you should know that Andrew and I, you know, we

love a good thrift score.

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We love a good uh resell story.

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And I just went to this very generous woman's house.

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She was giving away a few things on Marketplace.

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And when I got to her house, we vibed so hard.

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We were like the same size and she was moving to another country.

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Like she...

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was done, she didn't have time to list things and like we had such a good little chatty

time.

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I was leaving and I was like, wow, why do you have to leave and go to another country?

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Like, bummer, like we got along so well.

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We were just like, she literally gave me her whole closet and I have to go through it all

and all of these different things.

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But like, she just gave it to me.

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I didn't pay her for it or anything.

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She just really needed help emptying out her house.

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And she ended up like packaging even more stuff up and giving it.

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giving me more the next day.

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And so we keep unboxing little treasures from her.

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And so there's just a lot of really good vibes and energy going on.

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We always try to like gift things and, uh you know, offer gratitude.

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We always try to be generous.

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And so this was like a really big generosity that came back and in full force for me.

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Yeah, that was a really cool thing when we found out about that this week.

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So cool.

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My glimmer is a physical one.

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as a lot of people know, I've had like a really bad jaw problem.

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It's like TMJ and I have gone to, I've done acupuncture, I've done physiotherapy, I've

tried everything to fix this and I very...

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very seldomly get relief.

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My physiotherapist that was working with my shoulder, she said, like, can I try to adjust

things through your mouth?

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That's the only other thing that hasn't been tried yet.

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And of course I'm like, why not?

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Because I've tried everything else.

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And it was such an amazing thing.

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This person puts her hand in my mouth and gently moves a couple of things that like,

honestly, I feel like my tongue does more movement in my mouth, like on the roof of my

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mouth.

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But suddenly something

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shifted and I just felt like this flood of energy through my body.

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was almost like a, you know, a vein that had been crimped for 10 years got opened up and

I'm like, my goodness.

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And the pain has been gone for a week now and I'm just so, so grateful for it.

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It's so amazing.

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It's so nice to be walking around without pain.

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Yeah, thank you.

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It's been really.

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a glimmer.

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You probably get so used to the pain that you'd even like, you know what I mean?

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It's probably just so weird to be walking around without it.

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So I'm really happy for you.

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Thank you, it's been awesome.

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I'm very happy for your haul too.

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That is like the haul of a lifetime.

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We can't go into the details of it all.

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Yeah, it's all good.

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All right, thank you so much for listening and we will see you next time.